並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-33-%E5%BE%9E%E5%9C%9F%E5%9C%B0%E9%95%B7%E5%87%BA%E4%BE%86%E7%9A%84%E7%87%88%E6%9C%83-%E9%BB%83%E5%9F%94%E6%96%B0%E6%9D%91%E5%A6%82%E4%BD%95%E9%9D%A0%E7%AF%80%E6%85%B6%E7%AD%96%E5%B1%95%E4%BA%AE%E8%B5%B7%E4%BE%86-%E9%BB%83%E5%9F%94%E5%A4%9C%E7%87%88%E7%A5%AD%E7%9A%84%E5%9B%9B%E5%A4%A7%E4%BA%AE%E9%BB%9E-%E8%97%9D%E8%A1%93%E5%AE%B6%E8%A6%AA%E6%8F%AD%E5%89%B5%E4%BD%9C%E7%90%86%E5%BF%B5/id1573198974?i=1000549637110