並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep8-%E5%8F%B0%E7%81%A3%E4%BA%A4%E9%80%9A%E7%88%9B%E5%88%B0%E7%88%86-%E6%B2%92%E4%BA%BA%E8%A1%8C%E9%81%93-%E6%A9%9F%E8%BB%8A%E4%BA%82%E7%AE%A1-%E9%80%9F%E9%99%90%E4%BA%82%E5%AE%9A%E9%83%BD%E6%98%AF%E4%BD%A0%E5%90%84%E4%BD%8D%E7%BD%AA%E8%A9%B2%E8%90%AC%E6%AD%BB%E5%95%8A-ft-%E9%82%B1%E9%A1%AF%E6%99%BA/id1549137892?i=1000508864154