並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E4%B8%80%E5%B8%AD%E8%8B%B1%E8%AF%AD%E8%84%B1%E5%8F%A3%E7%A7%80%E8%80%81%E5%A4%96%E6%9D%A5%E4%BA%86/%E8%8B%B1%E8%AF%AD%E8%81%8A%E7%BD%91%E7%BA%A2%E6%B5%81%E9%87%8F%E6%89%93%E5%8D%A1%E5%9C%A3%E5%9C%B0%E7%BD%91%E7%BA%A2%E8%9B%8B%E7%B3%95%E7%BD%91%E7%BA%A2%E9%A4%90%E5%8E%85-mypJxCaIG3P/